I am a developer of the NetBeans "User Tasks" module (http://tasklist.netbeans.org). It seems that we work on similar projects. What do you think about some sort of collaboration (common data format, code reuse etc.)?
Dear hilt2,
Thanks for your interest. But are you sure we are working on the same issue? I have looked at the web you provided but it seems to be something different :(
TimeSlotTracker gathers information about user activity (working on some tasks), storing every timeslot (time period) individually. This is the biggest difference to almost all rest time-trackers - they usually sum this time and stores them in one attribute.
But - in case I am wrong - my answer is generally "of course" :)
--
best regards, zgibek
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
here is my comparison of User Tasks (UT) and Time Slot Tracker (TST).
Correct me if I am wrong somewhere!
Data storage:
------------
- UT stores data in an .ics file (RFC 2445) with extensions. TST stores it's data in it's own XML based format
- UT can work with multiple .ics files. TST only allows 1 file in the home directory.
Data model:
-----------
- UT sees an .ics file as a tree of tasks with additional dependencies between tasks.
Tasks may act as categories and summarize values of subtasks.
For TST a task list is also a tree of tasks. Additionally each task has a list of time slots.
- Task attributes in UT: summary, details, category, owner, url, line, start date, due date, last modified time,
completed time, "compute values automatically" flag, progress, effort, spent time, work periods, dependencies
TST: name, description and generic attributes of 5 types
Export:
-------
- UT allows export as .ics, html (6 different layouts), plain text and xml
TST can export html (4 layouts), csv (2 layouts) and has additionally generic xslt+xml export
Help:
-----
- UT: online help, TST: no
i18n:
----
- UT: yes, english only, TST: yes, polish, english and russian (I was not able to find the messages
in the source code :-)
App type:
---------
- UT is a module for NetBeans (or any application based on NetBeans platform). TST is a standalone
Java app.
---------------------------------------------------------
If you'd use subtasks instead of time slots then our data models would be compatible.
The things where TST is ahead of UT are:
- reports (I was not able to test them all)
- generic attributes
- localization in 3 languages
So my first suggestion (probably not a realistic one) is:
move this code to NetBeans CVS and help me with UT!
What do you think?
--Tim
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Dear Tim,
Sorry for this late answer, but I have been going live into production with one system... So I am busy nowadays..
But, coming into your questions:
> So my first suggestion (probably not a realistic one) is: move this code to NetBeans CVS and help me with UT!
Yes, you are right - I don't see the possibility to moving to net beans.
> UT is a module for NetBeans
I don't want the Tst to be dependent on other software.
> Data storage (...isc files...)
Well, using well known, documented and open standards are good choice. I don't know this format, so maybe it would be good.
But - xml is wildly portable, good to use on any platform, very easy to enhance and add new features.
> Export (...)
TsT can export data in any format - it depends only on xslt template. It could make also ics, pdf, txt, rft, ...
You have only to write new xslt file.
> localization (...) I was not able to find the messages in the source code (...)
Because in the source code are ONLY code names of them. All strings are set in properties files.
> License
I want to keep the GPL licence.
The thing we can cooperate for now is exchanging and coping/pasting data from/to ics/xml file.
The other possibility is to make the user to choose the format to use ics datastore (if it fits the TsT needs)
Another one - you can think about preparing reports with xslt.
--
best regards, zgibek
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Dear Tim,
For now it has to be the GPL license model. It's just because of my very busy days.
Changing the license model have to be very carefull. I don't know exactly the differences between GPL and LGPL
- what they are?
And what that mean for current users?
The second thing is you don't reply about my point of view of exchanging code.
--
best regards, zgibek
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Dear Tim,
I am closing this request. It looks we are not going on the same train..
Maybe in some future it will be possible.
But, if your lack of answer is based just on busy days just let me know,
I will put this task into open mode and wait for better time.
--
best regards, zgibek
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I did not get your reply from 2007-02-23 21:58. I don't know why.
Maybe my Thunderbird filtered it out as a spam or there were some
mail delivery problems. I would suggest to continue this discussion
using e-Mail (tim dot lebedkov at web dot de). Some sort of chat
would be also nice to speed things up.
LGPL was designed especially for libraries and allows using of
software for commercial purposes.
Instead of exchanging code I would suggest to establish a
library that will be used by both projects. The first thing
that IMHO should go into it is the code modeling the tasks.
Regards
--Tim
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
On Saturday 21 of April 2007 10:44, you wrote:
> I did not get your reply from 2007-02-23 21:58. I don't know why.
> Maybe my Thunderbird filtered it out as a spam or there were some
> mail delivery problems. I would suggest to continue this discussion
> using e-Mail (tim dot lebedkov at web dot de). Some sort of chat
> would be also nice to speed things up.
Ok, never mind. Now you have my email :)
But for other people IT IS IMPORTANT to copy it to source forge.
> LGPL was designed especially for libraries and allows using of
> software for commercial purposes.
What does mean the commercial purposes - in which area?
> Instead of exchanging code I would suggest to establish a
> library that will be used by both projects. The first thing
> that IMHO should go into it is the code modeling the tasks.
Building library for both project is a project in intself, but...
I think we should rather consider exchanging underlaying data, something like import/export.
This should show us where are the differences and what have to be done to integrate them.
And it doesn't require to change the licence model.
So, the format used by TimeSlotTracker is well know and wrote in dtd file, as well as sample (or real one if you us it :)) xml file with data.
Can you compare it to netbeans and describe, one by one, where are the differences.
--
best regards, zgibek
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Zbigniew Oględzki wrote:
> Dear Tim,
>
> On Saturday 21 of April 2007 10:44, you wrote:
>> I did not get your reply from 2007-02-23 21:58. I don't know why.
>> Maybe my Thunderbird filtered it out as a spam or there were some
>> mail delivery problems. I would suggest to continue this discussion
>> using e-Mail (tim dot lebedkov at web dot de). Some sort of chat
>> would be also nice to speed things up.
> Ok, never mind. Now you have my email :)
> But for other people IT IS IMPORTANT to copy it to source forge.
I will duplicate my answers there.
>
>> LGPL was designed especially for libraries and allows using of
>> software for commercial purposes.
> What does mean the commercial purposes - in which area?
A LGPL-licensed library can be shipped with a closed source
commercial application without any restrictions and without
open-sourcing the code of the application.
>
>> Instead of exchanging code I would suggest to establish a
>> library that will be used by both projects. The first thing
>> that IMHO should go into it is the code modeling the tasks.
> Building library for both project is a project in intself, but...
> I think we should rather consider exchanging underlaying data, something
> like import/export.
I myself don't need to import data from timeslottracker and
none of the users of UT asked me to do it. It is not enough for me
to exchange data.
> This should show us where are the differences and what have to be done to
> integrate them.
> And it doesn't require to change the licence model.
>
> So, the format used by TimeSlotTracker is well know and wrote in dtd file,
> as well as sample (or real one if you us it :)) xml file with data.
> Can you compare it to netbeans and describe, one by one, where are the
> differences.
I have already compared data models. Here we go:
Data model:
-----------
- UT sees an .ics file as a tree of tasks with additional dependencies
between tasks.
Tasks may act as categories and summarize values of subtasks.
For TST a task list is also a tree of tasks. Additionally each task has
a list of time slots.
- Task attributes in UT: summary, details, category, owner, url, line,
start date, due date, last modified time,
completed time, "compute values automatically" flag, progress, effort,
spent time, work periods, dependencies
TST: name, description and generic attributes of 5 types
If you'd use subtasks instead of time slots then our data models would be
compatible.
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Dear hilt2,
Thanks for your interest. But are you sure we are working on the same issue? I have looked at the web you provided but it seems to be something different :(
TimeSlotTracker gathers information about user activity (working on some tasks), storing every timeslot (time period) individually. This is the biggest difference to almost all rest time-trackers - they usually sum this time and stores them in one attribute.
But - in case I am wrong - my answer is generally "of course" :)
--
best regards, zgibek
Logged In: YES
user_id=634244
Originator: YES
look at http://www.netbeans.org/source/browse/tasklist/usertasks/javahelp/org/netbeans/modules/tasklist/usertasks/docs/content/images/workPeriods.jpg?rev=1.1&view=auto&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
Every work period is stored. This way I can for example show time spent on a task today. I will download TimeTracker and give it a try. I will contact you later.
--Tim
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A, sorry, maybe my mistake.
In what area you can the possibility to contribute/exchange experience, code or something else?
regards, zgibek
Logged In: YES
user_id=634244
Originator: YES
Hello,
here is my comparison of User Tasks (UT) and Time Slot Tracker (TST).
Correct me if I am wrong somewhere!
Data storage:
------------
- UT stores data in an .ics file (RFC 2445) with extensions. TST stores it's data in it's own XML based format
- UT can work with multiple .ics files. TST only allows 1 file in the home directory.
Data model:
-----------
- UT sees an .ics file as a tree of tasks with additional dependencies between tasks.
Tasks may act as categories and summarize values of subtasks.
For TST a task list is also a tree of tasks. Additionally each task has a list of time slots.
- Task attributes in UT: summary, details, category, owner, url, line, start date, due date, last modified time,
completed time, "compute values automatically" flag, progress, effort, spent time, work periods, dependencies
TST: name, description and generic attributes of 5 types
Export:
-------
- UT allows export as .ics, html (6 different layouts), plain text and xml
TST can export html (4 layouts), csv (2 layouts) and has additionally generic xslt+xml export
Help:
-----
- UT: online help, TST: no
i18n:
----
- UT: yes, english only, TST: yes, polish, english and russian (I was not able to find the messages
in the source code :-)
App type:
---------
- UT is a module for NetBeans (or any application based on NetBeans platform). TST is a standalone
Java app.
License:
--------
- UT: CDDL, TST: GPL. This combination is a problem (see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html\)
---------------------------------------------------------
If you'd use subtasks instead of time slots then our data models would be compatible.
The things where TST is ahead of UT are:
- reports (I was not able to test them all)
- generic attributes
- localization in 3 languages
So my first suggestion (probably not a realistic one) is:
move this code to NetBeans CVS and help me with UT!
What do you think?
--Tim
Logged In: YES
user_id=634244
Originator: YES
It's more than a week since my last post and you didn't post an answer.
What's going on?
--Tim
Logged In: YES
user_id=931945
Originator: NO
Dear Tim,
Sorry for this late answer, but I have been going live into production with one system... So I am busy nowadays..
But, coming into your questions:
> So my first suggestion (probably not a realistic one) is: move this code to NetBeans CVS and help me with UT!
Yes, you are right - I don't see the possibility to moving to net beans.
> UT is a module for NetBeans
I don't want the Tst to be dependent on other software.
> Data storage (...isc files...)
Well, using well known, documented and open standards are good choice. I don't know this format, so maybe it would be good.
But - xml is wildly portable, good to use on any platform, very easy to enhance and add new features.
> Export (...)
TsT can export data in any format - it depends only on xslt template. It could make also ics, pdf, txt, rft, ...
You have only to write new xslt file.
> localization (...) I was not able to find the messages in the source code (...)
Because in the source code are ONLY code names of them. All strings are set in properties files.
> License
I want to keep the GPL licence.
The thing we can cooperate for now is exchanging and coping/pasting data from/to ics/xml file.
The other possibility is to make the user to choose the format to use ics datastore (if it fits the TsT needs)
Another one - you can think about preparing reports with xslt.
--
best regards, zgibek
Logged In: YES
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Originator: YES
Hi,
we cannot work on things together if you stick with GPL. I need at least LGPL or something similar to
be able to reuse the results in my module.
--Tim
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You could use LGPL licensed content too. Please consider using LGPL if not for the whole TST
than at least for parts we will use together.
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Please contact me if you still interested in some sort of collaboration.
--Tim
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Dear Tim,
For now it has to be the GPL license model. It's just because of my very busy days.
Changing the license model have to be very carefull. I don't know exactly the differences between GPL and LGPL
- what they are?
And what that mean for current users?
The second thing is you don't reply about my point of view of exchanging code.
--
best regards, zgibek
Logged In: YES
user_id=931945
Originator: NO
Dear Tim,
I am closing this request. It looks we are not going on the same train..
Maybe in some future it will be possible.
But, if your lack of answer is based just on busy days just let me know,
I will put this task into open mode and wait for better time.
--
best regards, zgibek
Logged In: YES
user_id=634244
Originator: YES
Hi Zgibek,
I did not get your reply from 2007-02-23 21:58. I don't know why.
Maybe my Thunderbird filtered it out as a spam or there were some
mail delivery problems. I would suggest to continue this discussion
using e-Mail (tim dot lebedkov at web dot de). Some sort of chat
would be also nice to speed things up.
LGPL was designed especially for libraries and allows using of
software for commercial purposes.
Instead of exchanging code I would suggest to establish a
library that will be used by both projects. The first thing
that IMHO should go into it is the code modeling the tasks.
Regards
--Tim
Logged In: YES
user_id=931945
Originator: NO
Dear Tim,
On Saturday 21 of April 2007 10:44, you wrote:
> I did not get your reply from 2007-02-23 21:58. I don't know why.
> Maybe my Thunderbird filtered it out as a spam or there were some
> mail delivery problems. I would suggest to continue this discussion
> using e-Mail (tim dot lebedkov at web dot de). Some sort of chat
> would be also nice to speed things up.
Ok, never mind. Now you have my email :)
But for other people IT IS IMPORTANT to copy it to source forge.
> LGPL was designed especially for libraries and allows using of
> software for commercial purposes.
What does mean the commercial purposes - in which area?
> Instead of exchanging code I would suggest to establish a
> library that will be used by both projects. The first thing
> that IMHO should go into it is the code modeling the tasks.
Building library for both project is a project in intself, but...
I think we should rather consider exchanging underlaying data, something like import/export.
This should show us where are the differences and what have to be done to integrate them.
And it doesn't require to change the licence model.
So, the format used by TimeSlotTracker is well know and wrote in dtd file, as well as sample (or real one if you us it :)) xml file with data.
Can you compare it to netbeans and describe, one by one, where are the differences.
--
best regards, zgibek
Logged In: YES
user_id=634244
Originator: YES
Hello Zbigniew,
Zbigniew Oględzki wrote:
> Dear Tim,
>
> On Saturday 21 of April 2007 10:44, you wrote:
>> I did not get your reply from 2007-02-23 21:58. I don't know why.
>> Maybe my Thunderbird filtered it out as a spam or there were some
>> mail delivery problems. I would suggest to continue this discussion
>> using e-Mail (tim dot lebedkov at web dot de). Some sort of chat
>> would be also nice to speed things up.
> Ok, never mind. Now you have my email :)
> But for other people IT IS IMPORTANT to copy it to source forge.
I will duplicate my answers there.
>
>> LGPL was designed especially for libraries and allows using of
>> software for commercial purposes.
> What does mean the commercial purposes - in which area?
A LGPL-licensed library can be shipped with a closed source
commercial application without any restrictions and without
open-sourcing the code of the application.
>
>> Instead of exchanging code I would suggest to establish a
>> library that will be used by both projects. The first thing
>> that IMHO should go into it is the code modeling the tasks.
> Building library for both project is a project in intself, but...
> I think we should rather consider exchanging underlaying data, something
> like import/export.
I myself don't need to import data from timeslottracker and
none of the users of UT asked me to do it. It is not enough for me
to exchange data.
> This should show us where are the differences and what have to be done to
> integrate them.
> And it doesn't require to change the licence model.
>
> So, the format used by TimeSlotTracker is well know and wrote in dtd file,
> as well as sample (or real one if you us it :)) xml file with data.
> Can you compare it to netbeans and describe, one by one, where are the
> differences.
I have already compared data models. Here we go:
Data model:
-----------
- UT sees an .ics file as a tree of tasks with additional dependencies
between tasks.
Tasks may act as categories and summarize values of subtasks.
For TST a task list is also a tree of tasks. Additionally each task has
a list of time slots.
- Task attributes in UT: summary, details, category, owner, url, line,
start date, due date, last modified time,
completed time, "compute values automatically" flag, progress, effort,
spent time, work periods, dependencies
TST: name, description and generic attributes of 5 types
If you'd use subtasks instead of time slots then our data models would be
compatible.
Please also consider one more time moving the code of TST to a
NB module. Due to the recent changes the software now does not depend on
NetBeans as application anymore, only as platform. You can download
current version from
http://tasklist.netbeans.org/servlets/ProjectDocumentList?folderID=163&expandFolder=163&folderID=0
It is only 6 MB.
Regards
--Tim